If you watch my facebook wall, you've seen an eruption of dialogue that began with a tweet i wrote that said that Christians should know words like justification, imputation, righteousness, propitiation and the like.
What follows is my interaction with what Colin (a Roman Catholic), wrote.
Colin said: Once you're baptized you are free to be as ignorant of scripture as you want, according to the view you are espousing.
My response: That indeed is not the view that we espouse. God gives his people a new nature, the gift of faith, and justifies them by the work of Christ on their behalf. He also brings about the changes of their wills and lives by grace and causes their perseverance in the faith. So justification is secured by Christ and received at the instant one trusts Christ for it. Obedience follows.
Colin said: In fact, we don't even need to preach the gospel, because God saved everyone, the end.
My response: That’s absurd. God has not saved everyone. I’m not sure where you’re getting that.
Colin said: But it still doesn't prove my words wrong, that love is the foundation of the gospel.
My response: It depends on what you mean by that. If you mean that love was God’s motivation in saving his people, then you’re right. But the command to love is not good news. As noted above, however, it is an effect that the good news has in the life of a believer in Christ.
Colin said: i mean we are pondering whether it matters to know what these terms are right? I say it doesn't, you need only know the definition of love and put it into practice, and even improve at it.
My response: Then you are saying that it doesn’t matter that Christians understand Scripture. We believe that people grow in obedience by means of the proclamation of God’s word.
Further, when you say ‘you’ need to practice love – no one disagrees. However, Scripture teaches that loving others does not and cannot justify us, since we’ll never do it in a way that God’s law requires. Justification is by Christ’s work alone.
Colin said: this is what is meant by "So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Indeed, "It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus). Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead, I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God's upward calling, in Christ Jesus. "
This does not sound like a man who believes in instant salvation or fancy terms, but it does sound like a man who believes that the gospel message is to love:
My response: You have a funny way of leaving out the contexts of Phlippians 2 and 3. Christians are indeed to obey commands. But those commands are the outworking of salvation not working for it. You’ve left out in these passages the truths that God has already justified his people – and the promises that he is working to change his peoples’ lives. From those two facts, commands flow. Commands are not the good news. The good news is that Jesus has, in his life, death, and resurrection, accomplished all of salvation for everyone who believes in him. That means he has accomplished justification for all those who trust him for it (and not in any part their own works), and that he has accomplished the guarantee of a renewing and ultimately renewed nature in the new creation.
Colin cited Col. 3: "Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry. Because of these the wrath of God is coming (upon the disobedient). By these you too once conducted yourselves, when you lived in that way. But now you must put them all away: anger, fury, malice, slander, and obscene language out of your mouths. Stop lying to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed, for knowledge, in the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all and in all. Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, bearing with one another and forgiving one another, if one has a grievance against another; as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do. And over all these put on love, that is, the bond of perfection. And let the peace of Christ control your hearts, the peace into which you were also called in one body. And be thankful."
My response: Indeed and amen. But you have taken this section of Col. 3 away from its context – that those who do these things have already been raised up with Christ, have had their sins completely forgiven, and are members of heaven based on Christ’s work received through faith alone. Therefore, they are to act like it.
Colin said: lest we start another Protestant sect, I will tell you what it means:
My response: someone’s been getting teaching from pop-romanist apologists. Do I need to remind you of all the sects and disagreements that exist in the Roman church? And that all of us are united on the nature of God and how he saves sinners? Yes, there is disagreement on less important subjects. But we are united on the Gospel.
Colin said: it is the key to the gospel: learn to love, and you will know the gospel. fail to love, and you will receive God's wrath. What is sin? failure to love. Who forgives our sins? Our Lord. How does he forgive them? When we acknowledge our failings and look to God's mercy. How do we love? To forgive others their failings as he forgives us. I do not approve of the past tense "forgave", because in reality God "forgives" constantly and eternally. This is what is meant by "ki l'olam chasdo" in psalm 136: for his mercy is forever.
My response: It’s odd to say that in a context in which God uses the past tense ‘forgave.’ There is some truth in what you say here. But the Gospel is received through faith, and God transforms the lives of those who trust him.
Colin said: So how we do we live in Christ, become more like Him? Learn to love as he did. This is the gospel, and no other. For what is the best way to preach the gospel? To love others and forgive them their failings, that through us they may know the meaning of unconditional grace, and come to know Jesus:
My response: This is the gospel? Really? Can you show where Scripture says “the command to love other people is good news”? Anywhere? No, but I can tell you that Scripture does define the Gospel as Jesus’ death and resurrection which saves everyone who believes in him – justification, sanctification, glorification and all.
Colin said: "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
In this way the love of God was revealed to us: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might have life through him. In this is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as expiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also must love one another. No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us."
for what else could this passage possibly mean?
My response: First, the word translated ‘expiation’ should be translated ‘propitiation.’ Expiation is a terrible translation of that word. Furhter, I preached a wedding homily on this passage, actually. See here: http://derekjoseph.blogspot.com/2008/06/new-zealand-and-wedding-homily.html
In short, this passage (from 1 John 4), teaches that everyone who is born again, for whom Christ suffered God’s wrath as their substitute, should love – and indeed, will love. The logic is thus: God has perfectly saved you if you have trusted Christ. That salvation includes perfect forgiveness and a new nature. That new nature is a nature that loves and is growing in love. Therefore, love.
The command carries with it promised obedience because of what God has already done.
Colin said: in response to the "words fail your own test" question: the test proposed is that preaching the gospel is to tell of God's mercy only, and has nothing to do with our participation, and that learning these terms is vital, even though we don't have to actually do anything to receive God's grace. There's a paradox in such language. It's just illogical; it doesn't line up.
My response: participation is a sticky word. Do we exercise faith to receive what God has promised? Yes. But all of the merit which justifies sinners is Christ’s – and none of it is ours.
Learning these terms is vital because they are God’s words, beautiful words, and words that increase a knowledge of and love of and worship of God. Are they necessary for salvation? No. But they are in the Bible and Christians should know them and love them.
You level the accusation that we’re illogical. I hope I’ve already shown you that this is not the case. Repentance is a lifestyle – and it is a lifestyle which God brings about in all of his people. If it is not brought about in a person, that person is not one of God’s people.
Colin said: Therefore, the only logical end to this discussion is one that ends where our acceptance of the gospel invitation, and of God's constant and eternal mercy, is in our performance: to love. It matters not that we can never love perfectly, but only that we do it, and keep trying, and get better at it, and never give up, and never worry about our failings, for God forgives us our failings, just as he promised. He only asks for our faith and that we make our bodies "a living sacrifice." The only way to do that is to give of the self, aka to love.
My response: Love is the highest moral requirement. But doing it in no way saves a person. Salvation is accomplished by Christ’s work alone received by faith in him alone. Christ does transform those who receive him. And we do love more and more, as he gives grace. But that love does not save us. His love and his death because of his love do. And they do it without aid from us. And that is the Gospel – and to be honest, anything less than that falls under the same curse that the Galatian false teaching did.
No comments:
Post a Comment